Agreed Jimmyacorn... I am all about encouraging the the young riders, a few of them will get it and will be riding when we're attached to machines that allow us to live longer than we probably should! (hope mine is still a V-Twin) LOL!

On the other hand, where would the biking industry be without the enthusiastic newbies and wannabe's that eventually buy a bike. It's tough times and bike sales have been way down during this recession.
Besides, different strokes for different folks, and there are all kind of personalities.
Bikers are just people. Our interests rank our bikes as very imortant. Sure, many will buy and sell out after time. The same holds true for guitars. Most never get played.
If its good for the biking business, it's good for us.

Strat makes a valid point. Without all the peeople buying the corny T shits and stuff..sales would be down to blazers. Wild Hogs put em on the map. The go look at OCC...half the bikes an't be ridden legally...talk about a sell out to commercialism. Jnr V Snr...I used to give them credit....now i don't even bother. Can you imagine if all the people who tow didn't show up at events like Sturgis...sure it would get back to maybe how it was....but the booty wouldn't be about..how long do you think it would continue....without the support of the mayor...not making money yeah can it!.

ya but maybe if all them did show up I'd be less likely to be run the f' over getting there. have a great one! "T"

Strat I agree, I was just making observations and god bless those NOOBs for buying and keeping them well preserved for us to buy up later! By the way I have Dean ML and Gibson SG m'self! (my other passion) :-)

Last time the big fella and the Boof was in the same bar.....................

GREAT topic. I'm not sure how I stack up as a "biker", since I don't put on the mileage a lot of people here do. I ride when I can, and split time on my bike with my other interests. On the other hand, I work hard to avoid the poser look... other than an old H-D leather jacket I bought from a co-worker who couldn't fit in it anymore, I don't wear name-brand gear, my riding boots are old work boots, and my chaps don't have "Harley-Davidson" stitched down the side.

Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the whole H-D culture. I don't have a problem with the bikes at all. But IMO there is a certain image or look that the H-D "brand" carries with it. I won't go into details, but I will say that when I was riding my first bike, an old Kawasaki Spectre, I didn't have to worry about looking like a poser. Jeans and a t-shirt were good enough for riding, and I didn't feel the need to spend $1,000 on pipes and other aftermarket tweaks. Nobody cared about the crappy old helmet I used to wear.

I don't know if it was a biker culture thing or if it was just me being in my early twenties and not caring what other people thought, but I sure miss the simplicity of it all.

um, most of the youngsters are kind of cool as long as they put that attitude on the back shelf at we woman riders. I was riding long before their twins were stains on a bed sheet, let alone a gleem in anyone's eye. I have no problem encouraging them to ride and what not. However I'm thinking its the trend of the mid life crisis here that's really messing things up. Dudes used to buy a vette but now they buy a harley and put 4,000 dollars of crap into a bike they've never even ridden, do ya know how to ride first? yes please buy that dyna wide glide dress it up pretty, then jam your wife on the back and listen to her bitch about music, so next year out to the dealer for a trade. Then he decides this is the guy thing and don't want to look like he's with the wife, convinces her to ride, she does and she gets a sporty put 1,500 maybe 2,000 miles on it in two years, she then gets a street glide. They've got some t-shirts from the vacation in the islands or cruise, new boots, jackets bikes looked like they rolled out of the show room floor. The go on down to the Red Neck Yacht, Get all excited sporting the 3 tattoos they got over the last 2 years, believe they are the "life style", talk about all these great places they've biked to (from a trailer), then they look at me, its the same look they gave me like 30 years ago when I would be out with my gramps, the same look from 20 years when I was with the club, same look they gave me 10 years when I was with a mixed group of riders, the same look they gave me 5 years ago at a traffic light, yet two years ago they looked at me with awe in their eyes. They look at my bike covered in dust, and bugs, mabe some wear scratches, Old leather jacket that has a "sun fade" from years of use, my well used boots and me levis and still give me that same old look, as they have entered my world made a joke of it as they look at me down the ends of their noses. He's Mr. Hardcore and gives him self a name like "wild man" or maybe "chopper joe", she's a pro rider hell she even watched Ride like a pro and knows she's way better rider than I am and she knows everything and has the latest harley fashion leather for women, she calls her self "harley rose" or "sexy wild one". Last year she ran around flashing her boobs at everyone that would look, this year she calls those women ho's. Meanwhile they are still giving me that look at the end of their noises as they are better, or I'm clue less to what an actual "Real Deal" is. That is why, designer fashion bikes to help the mid life crisis biker make a fashion statement is un-believe-able over the top nonsense. What have I got to say to that is "La-De-F___ing-Da" my bike gets me where I want to go, when I want to go, and I'm not the least bit worried if it gets a bug, dust, or has high mileage on the odometer cause I use the dam thing for what its for. Now that be me rag on rubs and their rides, have a great one! "T"

I love reading al the different opinions, so I figured I would share mine. I guess you can say I was born into biking. My dad an mom were bikers and I got my first bike at 16 when my dad died, a 1968 ElectraGlide. I year later I left home on my bike and spent the next 15 years on the road. I had learned from some old timers how to fix bikes and traveled from town to town working a few months here and there in shops. So I guess maybe you could could call me a biker, but I prefer you just call me Gofur. I've settled down now with a family and still ride my SuperGlide every day to work and with the boys on weekends.

Thing is I don't ride because I care what anyone thinks, and I pretty much don't judge anyone else for riding whatever they want... I pretty much don't really care for that matter what anyone else does. Just because the guy down the street wants to start riding at 55 years old and want to ride with him and his wife in matching jackets... I don't see how that effects me and/or the reason I ride. Or some young guy who happens to be successful buys a $30,000 bike and only rides it in good weather... still don't change who I am and why I ride, so why should I care

Now the only thing I care about is that these people learn how to ride, both for the safety of all the rest of us and for themselves.. I don't ever like to hear about people getting hurt no matter who they are. But I also cut them some slack and let them learn to ride. Hell I had to learn at some point as did everyone who rides a bike.

Guess my feeling is I love riding and I love to see others getting to enjoy riding no matter how late in life the start or how they dress when they do it. Hell mid-life crises is a great reason to buy a bike. I can't think of anything more enjoyable to do in your later years then putting the women you spent most of your life with on the back of a bike and feeling the same freedom of the road I was lucky enough to get to do at a much younger age. And if they want to do it in matching $500 jackets, I'll wave and smile at them as they pass.

Again, just the way I look at it.

My profile Pic was me back in the 60s when I was racing my bike after getting Married 1st. time had to stop racing but then had a T100 a 250 Greeves a750H2 Pe 250 and so on so this doesn't make me a biker I gues when I retired 6 yrs ago I bought my 97 Dyna so now I guess im a poser See You Guys on the Road Webby

 Well Said GoFur,    

I have to say that I have been chewing on this since last night.  I have not read the comments posted since last night with the exception of Gofur's, because it was last.  I want to keep focused.  

I was kinda offended by the post. Just a tad.  I wasn't born straddeling a Harley.  My parents didn't ride either.  I am just a gal that loves the road and being on the bike.  I am not a "biker" After how many years of riding does one become one? Who say's you're one? Are there rules and regs somewhere that I missed out on?  Is there a ceremony or something? Sorry for being a smart ass, it's a gene defect.

The guy that has  been responsible and raised his family, sent the last kid off to college goes out and buys his mid life crisis bike, Kudos for him!  The woman who just got a divorce and wants something new and different, good for her too, And me...? Well I have been a passenger for 20 years, and I am ready for my own.  There was a time when I had no desire to be anything but "along for the ride"  those days are gone.

The average Joe on the road are the ones that are keeping Harley dealers in buisness, keep the clothing lines going, and the single mom that runs the ladies department at your local dealer in a job. They are the ones that are keeping the mechanics in a job because they never miss having the bike serviced when it's supposed to be. They are keeping places like "Leather Up" and "Biker Crap" going,  I have a girlfriend that does nothing but bling out ladies bandannas and helmets and makes a very good living off of it. Not to mention the tattooist... where would a biker be without ink? Or the biker bars and restaraunts that cater to them and the suppliers that supply them.... It's a massive chain my friend, Even the nice guy that runs this site most likely serves more of the "trendy" riders, than hardcore, born to ride, or die, patched up biker.

Anyone, man, woman, couple, who ever wants to ride should ride and deserves all the same respect as the the old school biker. I have friends from every walk of life that ride, I know a sixty something gal in Florida that every time I turn around she is burning through another state.  They are engineers, teachers, truck drivers and yes soccer moms, they are retired military , cops,  HA, Vagos, Green Machine, POBOB's and DD...They all have one thing in common, the love for the ride, a short putt or a long haul rain or shine.

So with all due respect, Respect those that love the ride, and next time someone tells you they are getting their first bike, maybe offer them your very best advice for new riders, what ever it maybe. It could be advice that saves them or gets them outta trouble one day.  And like GoFur said, We want all riders, new or otherwise to be safe riders.

I'm not a fanstatic writer that is something I know is true. I post with my life expierences and often don't sugarcoat things. I don't believe I ever called myself a biker, and mostly won't. I do believe the point of my post is not coming across as I would have liked it to. My experiences are this 30 years ago riding with Grandfather or other family members folks would look down upon us, these same folks 20 years ago when I was with the club would look at us then look away fast as not to see the "trashy ones". 10 years while in mixed company of riders the opinion hadn't changed much. 5 years ago these same folks couldn't have said the nicest things to me as they were getting in their BMW, just before the car door slammed the lovely lady yells out " I've shaved my head cause I want to be a man but I'm just a dyke on a bike" (hint I was bald chemo side effect). The same type of person wanting to ride now was in awe of us, and now after riding for two years and making my life a joke for the most part, they are the bikers and I'm still looked down upon because I don't have a brand new jacket or boots, let alone a new bike. I am willing to change the oil and put new brakes on my self to save a few dollars because I'm just blue collar and worked sometime 3 jobs to keep the homestead going at times. The couple believes they are hard core badasses and I have to say to that La De Da I ride cause I love to ride not because I can have a designer bike to match whatever it is that needs to be matched.
If you want to ride then by all means take an MFS, but I can't do it for you, you have to do it yourself. If its what you want then you will do it. If you want help after you complete the course to grow I'll help you grow and gain confidence. However I will not encourage anyone to do something that they are not ready to do. I was taught by someone for the simple reason of getting his ride home when he had too much to drink or whatever else he was doing, I was a joke then. However it is what I wanted do, so I went and did it even thought there wasn't one person on this planet that would help me out. I think an 883 then was like 3,200 brand new, but well I didn't have that so I bought used and learned that way. When I'm rider, I'm just that a rider not man or woman just a rider and I treat others in the same manor it doesn't matter to me. Judge me I've been there my whole life and after awhile it doesn't bother you once in a blue moon some things to get caught in the crawl. Designer bikes is one of them things. have a great one! "T"

Tumbles, There will always be those who judge, merely out of ignorance for the most part. I think that the biker community has grown due to many factors and it encompasses every walks of life. From the rich and famous to gals just like yourself. So let those who don't know the thrill and love of the ride make nasty comments and continue being ignorant and stupid. A BMW doesn't give them class, and more than likely you own your ride, and they are in debt up to their eyeballs for something that really doesn't make them happy...

Be glad that others are in awe... you have something they don't have. But I guess my point was, that we should not begrudge those who attain it for whatever reason or any given stage of life.

The written word rarely comes across as intended, there is no replacement for voice inflection or tone in the cyber world. Trust me, it took me about 10 minutes before I finally hit submit on my post...

I really don't know which group I would fit into. All my life I have never been one to follow the crowd but rather walk my own path. My Dad taught me a long time ago to be a leader not a follower. He also said to pick my nose and don't make love with the woman on top. (That one took me a while to figure out) LOL     
 I have sat back and read these posts several times and have come to the conclusion that I fit into both

#1,Getting it In the blood, I took my first ride at 11 with my Dad and starting working to buy my first bike at 12. (dirt bike). I then bought a street bike at 16 and rode it every day to school and work  and everywhere else for several years. (Biker?)

 I quit riding and began to raise my family.

#2 Starting back, After my last son got married, I decided to start looking for a used bike to get used to it again. I found that I could not afford a Harley and decided to purchase a Metric. It fit me without modification and has enough power to haul my big a$$ around. I have a vest but no chaps and wear an old jacket but waiting on tax refund to make that purchase. (Trendy?) 

I don't claim to be anything but a guy that has rekindled that flame and loves to ride. 
 
On one hand, I work hard in the field on the bus and in the ER to care for the sick and injured. And on the other, I work not to get my A$$ sued off for doing so. When I ride either to and from work or on a day off it keeps me sane and I can let go of the images that I carry in my mind and feelings in my heart.
 
 I am thankful for things like this site, as it has helped me remember things I have forgotten and meet people that share a common bond. Black9, I value you expertise and knowledge and will be asking for advise as I continue through my travels. I get it. I see the people you refer to and just shake my head. But they are helping keep the money flowing as IEdarla stated. Tumbles, I'm with you kiddo, I go into places with my uniform on and people are so nice and polite and the next day I stop by while riding and get the cold shoulder.  Makes me laugh as I know who has the problem.

So I guess I would make my Dad proud cause I am who I am and really don't care who gives a flip. I'm Happy and Hope you are too!

Best wishes to you all!!

Medic   

Ride Hard and Have Fun!

I must say I was a little put out and even confused by this post (except for GoFur and IEDalra's posts). I fought for my country, worked hard my whole life, raised a good family who now all have their own families.

No I didn't grow up on bikes or go through my entire life with a passion for motorcycles, and actually don't even really have a passion for motorcycles now; we just enjoy riding on occasion. When our house was empty and we finally retired being done with all the things we figured we NEEDED to do in life, we decided we wanted to do something we WANT to do and that happened to be motorcycling. I decided to buy a Harley because I liked it, I wasn't trying to impress anyone or mimic any one elses lifestyle. We were lucky enough to have retired comfortably so I bought the nicest Harely I could and yes I added a lot of what I call nice stuff (guess you call it trendy) and we bought nice matching riding clothes that we felt comfortable in and thought we looked good in; at least to each other, because that was all that mattered to us. We ride when we want to which is only a couple thousand miles a year and sometimes we trailer the bike to a place we want to ride. Why does it bother others if I want to spend $30,000 of money I worked for and only ride once a month.

I did take a riding course and spent lots of time learning how to ride well in controlled situations so I would not kill myself or be a hazard on the road.

So I guess the part about most of the posts that bothers me is why am I put down, ridiculed, or made fun of just because I want to I want to enjoy riding the a motorcycle the way I want to ride.

The part that confuses me about the posts is that most of the other riders we have met on the road (bikers and casual riders like ourselves) all treat us nice. They wave to us on the road and they talk about riding with us at the hangouts. So why is it here on the internet that people always question "what makes a biker" or "why are all these non-bikers buying Harleys", cause I don;t see all that much of it in the real world.

Rock on Popper & Mrs Popper

Like GoFur said... I ride for my own reasons, you feel free to ride for yours.  It's not going to change who I am just because of what you do.

I'm glad to see anyone one get out there and find out what we all love so much about the ridding and how much better the world looks with wind in your face.

You can ride along side of us anytime you want.

Amen Lucky, 

Popper , It just goes to prove there are people who go to the extreme on both sides of anything. If I had the money I'd be a lot like you, but I work for the county. lol  We all ride because we love it.
Medic

Wow!!! What's wrong with buying the latest and greatest there Black? I started riding when i was 19 i am now 37 and have had several "Brand New" bikes. I love the "NEW" shit....technology is a GREAT thing. Yeap i started on old metrics, went to rockets then to Victory's and now on Harley's. I just love to ride and i sure do dig the new bikes, fuel injection is a wonderful thing and carbs suck!

Boy I am glad to hear from other "posers " out there as far as I am concerned we are all Motorcycle Riders and love it no matter what we ride and what we wear. . Ride On Motorcycle Riders Webby

Oh give me a ****** break... I was pointing out those that buy these bikes because it's an in thing, ANY MODEL or MANUFACTURER... there are X amount of people who will realize that this is what they want to do... I think you should TRY reading the post and not read between the lines to which there is nothing between the lines, it's right there for you to read.
Not my fault if some of you get an attitude before you read the entire post, gee sorry if this hit home with some of you that felt the need to justify a position I wan't even referring to... Sorry you're embarrassed to read a differing opinion of your own. I wasn't crowing for some position of 'Old School' or I know better, because I don't, I learn something new everyday.

I too encourage a lot of new riders and I ALWAYS offer advice freely in hopes that it helps and gives those who want to ride a leg up down the road. I was merely referring the mass of assholes who buy a bike purely because it's fashionable and need an extension of themselves to be more than they are normally. The people that own a bike for 5 to 10 years and then you see it in the paper: 2001 Harley/Yamaha/Honda, 3500 miles better than new blah blah blah (make my next 12 months of mortgage payments price tag)

I have nothing against a good family supporting enthusiast... but never mind, you're going to read my post and judge the content without finishing reading and jump on your high horse and get everyone all up in arms... that's YOUR ****** problem!

As a seasoned rider, and no I'm NOT crowing, I have seen a lot of different riders and there are a LOT of good riders out there and yes carbs suck because you can't fine tune the way you can tune and EFI, I am NOT old school I have seen the progression of motorcycles over the few years I've been riding, I've only been riding legally since 1983, sorry if that makes me an asshole to provide MY commentary about what I have taken notice of over those few years.

Only speaking for myself. But not only did I read the post several times, I chewed on til the next day and read it a few times more before making my comment. Getting across a point of view via the written word is a daunting task.

You seem clear in your opinion. But I would ask you, how do you know what any ones intentions are when they buy their first bike or upgrade?

I don't understand the upgrade part... I'm all about buying the new bikes, they truly are a marvel of technology... it's for those who buy on impulse and that's it, they don't ride them and prefer to keep them locked away like they're an investment. And YES there are a LOT of people who buy to impress, we've all seen them.

My favorite on: Riding the Badlands of South Dakota all afternoon, dirty head to toe, still a ways from Sturgis for a few beers after such a hot day... my wife and I sitting at the local filling station trying to cool down with some water and catch some shade, a truck and trailer pull up, bike sitting in the back of the trailer of course, a couple + friend or kid gets out... the man makes a bee line for the filling station bathroom, dressed in average travel clothes the lazy comfortable fit. Probably a shade over 15 minutes later out he comes with what looked like he got lost in a dealership boutique, I'm guessing his socks and undies probably had bar and shield logos on them as well. Be that as it may, he seemed to be representing a look, I get it, it's cool it's Harley Davidson but as he is IN the head the other two are pulling the bike off the trailer (preparing him for his 100 mile arduous ride into Sturgis).
I didn't make a judgement call but I did get a chuckle out of the scene and there were many others waiting around doing the same myself and the wife and somebody yells out from the crowd to the guy as he's walking to his prepped trailer queen, "Must be rough!"
People are people but some people will just never get some cultures. *shrugs*

Best bumper sticker EVER, my good friend Larry has this on his tour pack and every year on his way to Sturgis he'll pull along side somebody hauling trailer queens and yelling out "YEAH time for Sturgis... ad nauseum" and after he gets there attention and blasts by them his bumper sticker reveals his intent of getting their attention like a neo sign reads NICE TRAILER, PUSSY!

I love that! heheheheh

You seem clear in your opinion. But I would ask you, how do you know what any ones intentions are when they buy their first bike or upgrade?

You don't know, that's my point, I do my best to encourage some, not all, but those who are dealing with an issues that need help or are looking for an answer... I like to help, I may not know the answer but I'd go out of my way to help them. But you're right I don't know but time is always the revealing factor, then take an odometer reading.

Boy I am glad to hear from other "posers " out there as far as I am concerned we are all Motorcycle Riders and love it no matter what we ride and what we wear. . Ride On Motorcycle Riders Webby

Hey webby like so many you read so little... I wasn't brand specific and I don't remember calling you or anyone else out on this this forum, in fact it was more of share what's on my mind post than anything else.